Transcript of the DVD Audio Commentary by Kim Manners and Robert Patrick for the episode 'Within'

Transcribed by: Libby
Edited by: X_Follower

KM: Hi, I'm Kim Manners and I directed this episode. It's called 'Within' and it's Robert Patrick's first episode on The X-Files.

RP: And I am Robert Patrick and this is my first episode on The X-Files where I was introduced as Special Agent John Doggett, sent to find Mulder. It was a fantastic way that they introduced my character to The X-Files' audience in the sense that they took it off me, the onus off me, they gave me a break. I was the guy looking for Mulder, what a great way to introduce a character when everybody's a little scared he's being brought in -

KM: Absolutely. When Robert came in it was the beginning of Season Eight with seven years behind us and there was suddenly this new actor and new energy and it just was really a rebirth for the show, it was just great. We had gotten a little complacent before Robert showed up. We'd done it for seven years, so we never rehearsed, we never did any of that, and suddenly here's this fresh, energetic actor who wanted to rehearse, and I spoke to Gillian and Mitch, and just gave us new life.

RP: Oh, that's cool, man. Well, I wanted to rehearse because I needed it, man. (they both laugh) I didn't know that you guys -

KM: Well, we didn't have a lot of time to find who is John Doggett. OK, we've got a brand new guy here, and you and I had never worked together before, and finding, you know, some common ground and the time it takes to learn to trust each other, I think we did a pretty good job.

RP: I think that happened as soon as we talked to each other on the phone. I remember Chris Carter saying, you're going to be in good shape, you've got my number one guy, he's going to be directing this episode, Kim Manners, and when I spoke to you, I said I am in good hands, this is going to be great.

KM: Yeah, we had some fun.

RP: It was really cool the way you, well, the way we introduced John to the audience. And we shot that scene first.

KM: Yes, we did.

RP: If you remember it.

KM: That's where she hit you in the face with the water.

RP: And speaking of 'she', she's incredibly sexy.

KM: There she is.

RP: Man, is she beautiful, huh?

KM: I bet you enjoyed working with her, didn't you?

RP: It was incredible.

KM: What a tremendous giving actress.

RP: Fantastic. We had very little time to talk, she and I, beforehand and I remember being so excited and nervous, this first episode, that first scene that we shot, and I hadn't been that nervous as an actor in a long time.

KM: Well, yeah.

RP: You knew the stakes were up and this is it, we'd just got the job and we got started. But Gillian was really great at putting me at ease.

KM: Right.

RP: You weren't too much help.

KM: No. (laughs)

RP: You just kept making me nervous.

KM: I was trying to sink you.

(They both laugh.)

KM: I figured that was the right approach.

RP: Yeah, let's get this guy off quick.

[Agents are packing up The X-Files office.]

RP: Ah, look at this. There's my task force.

KM: Yeah.

RP: I remember walking around that set for the first time, how exciting that was to be there, because… isn't that in the Smithsonian now?

KM: I believe it is. But I think the thing that was terrific for me and I'm sure for you, was to have an opportunity to be a part of a television show where you had all the time, all the luxury, you know, this is not going to happen again in the history of TV.

RP: No, this is an incredibly unique experience, one that I'm going to have a hard time ever trying to find something to even come close to this. You guys have spoiled me, you've wrecked me for television forever.

RP: Look at how beautifully this is shot.

KM: I know, Bill Roe.

RP: Billy Roe.

KM: Great, great cinematographer. Jono, our gaffer.

RP: He's fantastic. I just remember he was doing a Bruce Willis movie a little while ago.

KM: Oh, really? Did he have his Jono boxes with him?

RP: Yeah, he had his cane.

KM: His walking stick.

RP: I don't think it's out yet, it's called 'Hostage'. So, it looks incredible, we had all the toys to play with.

KM: Yup. And Lynne Willingham, what a great editor. Corey Kaplan, great production designer. Billy Roe.

RP: Yeah, and the boys. David's gone on to do 'Without a Trace', I think he's working on.

RP: It's a great cast.

KM: Mmm-hmm. The chemistry, that's the thing that struck me as a director. I was talking earlier, commenting on an earlier episode, the actors work every scene really hard to find where's the scene, what's the scene really about, you know. And I think Chris inspired that, you know.

RP: Yeah, I think it starts at the top and it works its way down, just like you're saying. I think Chris set the tone for everybody, so you're all striving and pushing to be the best that you can, and you did dig deeper. You know, you were inspired.

KM: And then as we got going and you found John Doggett and once you became part of the cast, remember how quickly we'd do it. You know, pull the trigger, let's go.

RP: I remember when we started I needed more time to try to figure things out, as you mentioned earlier with the rehearsals and whatnot, and trying to block things out, and make sense of what I was doing logically, and then I think finally after a couple of episodes somebody came up to me and said, I don't know who it was, Michelle MacLaren or somebody, 'we might have to start going a little faster'. (Kim laughs) We might not have time for those rehearsals.

KM: Right. But it was an ambitious show.

RP: I had never been the lead in a one-hour drama, been a co-lead in a one-hour drama, so it's a different world for me. I'd only had experience on, uh…

KM: On big features.

RP: ...yeah, so, it was a whole different deal. But, god, once we did get going and we were firing on all pistons, it was a great machine.

KM: Mmm-hmm. It really was. I am very proud of the way we found how to do a feature every week.

RP: That was the thing. It was a feature every week. And if we were doing mythology like this episode is, which again is the best way to introduce Doggett, to immediately get him in there and where is he going to fit.

KM: Well, this is the thing that kept me, I was on the show for seven-and-a-half years, and so the first three-and-a-half years I was in Vancouver, then we moved to Lost Angeles for seasons 6 and 7, so that was a breath of fresh air. Then you came in, in Season 8, another breath of fresh air, and then Annabeth came in at the end of Season 8, another breath of fresh air.

RP: And Cary.

KM: So it stayed fresh all the time.

RP: And Lucy Lawless.

KM: Well, Lucy Lawless, sure. Cary Elwes.

RP: Remember this guy Cary?

KM: Yeah.

RP: I like old Cary. How's he doing?

KM: I don't know. I guess he's doing good.

(RP laughs)

RP: Look at these, man, these sets were incredible. Working on these sound stages.

KM: There you are, buddy.

RP: There you are, the first look.

KM: About to get your first bath.

RP: This was a great scene. This is actually the scene that, you know, you test for these in front of the executives at Fox and Chris and everybody. God, I look a couple of years younger there. And this was the scene you used to audition for, and I had done this scene so many times, but boy was I keyed up this night.

KM: Isn't it funny how, you know, I've been directing for years, and this scene I was scared to death. We had to find this scene and I remember rehearsing this and rehearsing it, then we called Chris to come on down, take a look, see what we've done. He said, I like it, we made a couple of adjustments, remember that?

RP: Yeah. Well, you were so great the way you shot it and the way you did allow us to rehearse it and really find it, and I got really at ease with it. It seems really natural, I think.

KM: Yeah.

RP: Which was what it was supposed to do, take you off guard and really sucker punch you at the end of this. And it exposes how smart she is and intuitive and picking up on the fact that this guy is the guy that's.... interesting.

KM: Mmm-hmm.

RP: I'm worried now, now that it's on, I'm just watching myself. I'm going to talk over everybody else's stuff and sit here listening to me.

KM: You want to see if you were any good.

RP: Yeah, did I do alright there? It was so great, but for those of you watching this, Kim really had her nail me with the water. (both laugh) Over and over. But it was really the first take, I think is the one you went with.

KM: Yeah, I think so.

RP: I think you saved it. We didn't want to reset it and reset it. And, boy, Gillian had absolutely no problem getting it in there. (laughs) She just backhanded it right in there.

KM: That's what I love.

RP: This moment right here is really good.

RP: There you go. You're caught. Look how cool she is.

KM: Dangerous lady.

RP: Dangerous lady.

[Scully: You might have just introduced yourself.]

RP: That would be too easy.

[Scully stands and tosses the water in Doggett's face.]

KM: There it is.

RP: Oh, yeah, that hurt, man. She had no problem getting it in there. Yeah, you son of a gun. But, you know, right there, that action right there I think is what The X-Files fans wanted to have happen to this John Doggett.

KM: Absolutely.

RP: Because the word was out there, I remember getting on the Internet and people kind of going, 'oh, wait a second, they're bringing in this guy Robert Patrick and we don't want him', and there wasn't a lot of enthusiasm for this guy and where's he going, and, you know, obviously they wanted David. And I think that Chris and Frank and David really were astute with that by saying, you know what, this is what they want to see, let's just throw water in his face, let's introduce him that way.

KM: Well, I've got to tell you, I still go back to the way things happened. I said earlier that a lot of the things on The X-Files worked because they had to happen and I think that creatively Chris and Frank really sparked that: OK, we have a problem, David's going to leave the show, what are we going to do to keep it alive, well, we'll bring in an actor like Robert Patrick and let's not make him, don't try to make him too lovable too quick. Let the audience find him.

RP: That's it, exactly. Yeah, yeah. I remember you explained that to me over the phone because when we were having our initial conversations, you're going to win these people over but you're going win them over on our terms and that's the way we're going to go with it. He was really clearly defined.

KM: Very clearly defined.

RP: Once Doggett is, once you realize what he's about, he's not out there to hurt anyone. The farthest thing from his mind. A good character, you knew where he stood and what he was going to do, so he was loyal.

KM: Talking about storytelling, listen to this music. Mark Snow, could he put down some music or what?

RP: Yeah, some music, right?

KM: Unbelievable.

RP: Yeah, this is, I don't know, do they do anything like this on TV? I don't really watch much TV any more.

KM: I don't either, because they don't do anything like this.

RP: You know, there are some great shows out there, I guess.

KM: The thing I loved about this show is we made the ridiculous and the impossible, we brought a certain reality to it, and that was, you know, that was just good chemistry between the cast, everybody.

RP: Well, David and Gillian, I mean, my god, that kind of chemistry, that's once in a lifetime.

KM: You and Annabeth, you stop and think of some of the things that you were asked to play and portray and sell to an audience, and it could be pretty silly, but because of the conviction of the cast and the conviction of the writers, and the quality of the filmmaking, it worked, it became very real.

RP: It didn't become melodramatic, over the top, you played it for real, for what it was and people believed it. With all the crazy shenanigans that were going on, whatever they were, however far-out they really were. But the great thing about these mythology things is, you know, who's to say what's really going on in our government and all the politics, in foreign policy, and everything like that, and people love this conspiracy theory, kind of what's going on behind the doors in, you know, DC and the power brokers, and…

KM: They must love it because this show, The X-Files, gave birth to a lot of shows that are about conspiracies.

RP: Exactly.

KM: Look at 24, I mean. I'll never forget we were up in Vancouver, you hadn't joined the cast yet, and there were two retired CIA agents who came to visit the set. They were there all day long. And I got an opportunity to talk to them, and they looked at me and said, all we can tell you is that what you're doing on The X-Files is not so far removed from reality. Now that's scary.

(They both laugh.)

RP: It truly is. But the way they, you know, they weave these tales together and this line that goes through these mythology episodes, it's really fascinating. It was really fascinating to try to fit in there.

KM: Mmm-hmm.

KM: Well, I had the same experience when I did my first, because I wasn't the mythology guy, I was always the stand-alone guy and it was all Rob Bowman. My first show was 'Apocrypha' with Nick Lea and the oil coming out of his eyes, and you're right, you're fitting in to a whole different line of storytelling with the mythology. The stand-alone shows, they were separate entities, but this was a story that went on for nine years.

RP: Yeah. And we did in Season 8 and Season 9, percentage-wise, a larger number of these than they did in the previous seasons, per season average or whatever.

KM: Right.

RP: We did more in the last two seasons.

KM: Well, once Mulder was abducted, you know...

RP: Where the hell did he go?

KM: I have no idea. I think he was at home in Malibu, to tell you the truth.

(They laugh.)

RP: God, it was great. Listen to this music. You're right, man.

KM: Mark Snow sure knew how to put a little emotion on it, didn't he?

RP: Yeah. So neat. Now, that's Mulder's apartment.

KM: That Mulder's apartment, yeah.

KM: And he's left it, I guess, just, you know, since he was abducted it's just the way he left it. All full of dust. But watch this woman, she's not saying a word, she's not doing anything, and yet…

RP: That's my favorite kind of acting. When you can do it all right there in your eyes and face. It's a cool thing about her because when she has something to say she says it and you believe it, and of course she's got some very complex things to say, and then when she doesn't say a word you're just so engrossed with what she's doing, where her head is, and you know that it's somewhere, there's something going on here.

KM: This was something.

RP: This is freaky, right? I remember seeing this and going like…

KM: Oh, man. When they came up with putting these hooks in David's face, I thought, OK, we have reached the new low of sick.

RP: It's Clockwork Orange time. We're not doing the eyes, it kind of reminds me of… look at that, your visit to your local ear, nose and throat guy.

KM: That's it.

RP: Who did that, who was in charge of all these gizmos?

KM: Well, this was our special effects team, Bob Kerby, you remember? Bobby Calvert.

RP: Oh, Jesus. That hurts. I don't like that.

KM: David didn't like it either.

RP: I don't like that. Now, here are these guys, the Lone Gunmen.

KM: This was shot right down the street from Fox Studios. I remember all of these satellite dishes had dead pigeons in them, the pigeons had come, the microwaves had fried these pigeons.

RP: Look at that.

KM: Mmm-hmm.

RP: Mitch Pileggi. Steady, steady Mitch.

KM: A great guy.

RP: Any time you go to Mitch, it's good stuff.

KM: Yeah, but you know what was really tough, when I was directing and you, Mitch, David, Nick Lea, you get in a scene together and the four of you would start cracking up and there goes the day.

RP: (laughs) Yeah, Mitch and I could get pretty silly at these later hours, get pretty silly. Here's where we're confronting Kersh.

RP: We're both military men, Air Force, Marines.

[Kersh: Guys used to say they only knew their altitude by the smell of the V.C. rice pots.]

RP: Yeah, well, whatever.

(They both laugh.)

RP: No, I'm just kidding. I'm trying to remember these scenes. Man, this was exciting times.

KM: Yeah, it was. James was great… Pickens.

RP: Yeah, he's phenomenal. And he and I had some mutual things in our background, we're both from Ohio, we felt pretty connected right away. I really liked working with him. Boy, he'd come in each week and just nail his stuff.

KM: Yes, he did.

RP: No matter what was going on. Those great sets.

KM: But d'you know whose set that is? That's actually Skinner's office.

RP: We had to redress it back and forth.

RP: That, guy, that was amazing, those sound stages, what was it? 5 and 6, and we swing 8?

KM: 5 and 6 and 8 was our swing stage.

RP: What have they got over there now, what's going on over there?

KM: I don't know. I don't know what's going on over there.

RP: Probably 24.

KM: Yeah.

RP: What is going on? You know, the great thing, too, to work with...

[Scully: What are you doing here?]

RP: Jeez, what am I doing here?

RP: I don't remember being in her bedroom. Wait a minute.

KM: That's Mulder's bedroom.

RP: That's right. To take care of the fish, that's what this episode is. Man, she was fun to work with.

KM: Yeah, she was.

RP: Isn't that neat the way they do that? He might have worked with the NYPD, OK, yeah, he's an ex-cop.

KM: Right. Do you remember this, I think, was one of your first experiences with Gilly boards.

RP: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

KM: We'd build these little ramps and she would walk in for an over-shoulder shot like this, she'd come up a little ramp and you had to learn how to walk and step over it without looking like you were stepping over things, because she was so short.

RP: A lot of little things like that were going on, right?

KM: Yeah.

KM: And that's the other thing I love. You never called him 'Mulder', 'Muldah'.

RP: You know, I came into this really saying let's go with this New York cop thing and just kind of keep a little bit of that language. I wanted to try to maintain a little bit of that, and it worked on a couple of [...] from New York, it also sounded good for a cop, you know, it was kind of good for that. And then if you kept going with it it was also kind of a little blue-collar-y in a way. And I think it also worked on that level that I didn't say it like everyone else said it.

KM: Exactly.

RP: You know, because it was just a little different that… I don't know, I think it worked.

KM: I think it did, too.

RP: 'Muldah', you always gave me shit about that... where's the 'r'? 'Muldah'.

[Scully: I have seen things I cannot explain.]

RP: Now, she's becoming more of a believer.

KM: Mmm-hmm.

[Scully: And that as a scientist and a serious person it is a badge of honor not to dismiss these things because someone thinks they're B.S.]

RP: That would be me. Yeah.

[Doggett: Trying to figure these out. I found them in his desk there.]

KM: Now, what have you got? I can't remember what you've got.

RP: I can't either. I remember shooting this, like it was yesterday.

KM: Oh, rental cars.

RP: Ah, that's right, that's right, receipts.

RP: I had a lot of fun with the exposition that they would write. Making that work as part of just the normal conversation. I learned a lot as an actor doing these episodes, you know, stuff that you can take with you later and use in other projects, because you could really learn how to… if you got clicking with this stuff, you could get through it and make it seem like it was a conversation. It was rather neat.

KM: One of the big keys to the success of the series was that there was a lot of exposition scenes and the actors knew how to pull it off and not just be telling the audience a story. That's what I mean, you guys, all of you had the gift, you could make those words your own words, you know. And then Chris and Frank and all of the writers, Vince Gilligan, David Amann, I mean, they always found some level of humanity in the exposition scenes somewhere.

RP: Now see, I like the way you move the camera and you keep it moving in the way you shoot scenes, man, I mean, you keep it interesting, you have great angles. This particular episode reminds me of, like, The Insider. You know, I mean, the way Michael Mann shot that movie and you have a real gift for that. I know that comes with a lot of your experience, you've been doing this for a long time. God, what are you, 80 now?

KM: Yep, 85.

(They laugh).

KM: Thank you very much.

RP: No, I'm just kidding. No, but, I mean, it's just the way you keep moving the...

KM: Well, you know, what I learned on this show, and I had been directing 16 years in television before I got here. This show really taught me how to use the camera emotionally.

RP: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

KM: You know, and keep this stuff moving, keep it fluid, you know. It was an opportunity to do features, on a TV budget. Well, we didn't have a TV budget, now, did we? We had feature budgets.

RP: A feature film budget. People ask sometimes, you know, people ask me about the experience, I say it's the biggest damned feature film I ever did. I mean, I'd never done anything as big as this and people immediately go, oh, come on, T-2 was bigger than this - no, X-Files, much bigger.

KM: The trucks, the equipment, it was unbelievable.

RP: Every time you showed up, it was the biggest thing you ever saw. Took a lot to move us around.

KM: Yes, it did.

[An agent whispers something in Doggett's ear.]

RP: Really neat, because it is those moments, see, and you captured it all. Because everybody, you know, what is that, how does that affect him and what does he think?

KM: This is, again, I think some of the richest moments on The X-Files when people looked at each other, they didn't say a word, they just gave each other a look and you knew what was going on.

RP: You're letting it sit, you're letting it sit with what's been said earlier, the impact that's having on everybody.

[Scully: Two days ago? By who? For what? Doggett: Flowers. Automatic debit to a mortuary there. Scully: Mulder's mother is buried in Raleigh. That's the reason he was going every weekend.]

RP: That's neat.

RP: This was, like, shot at three in the morning, I think. This was really a late... that was the other thing, the hours were just… the hours just went out the window. I mean, you didn't know, while I was doing this, the first thing I realized was Monday through Friday was really Monday through Saturday. And Sunday was like the day of peace and reflectiveness. This goes for everybody, the writers and everybody, and you just had blinders on, you got no idea, you didn't need a real clock because there was no real time.

KM: No. It didn't matter. It didn't matter. (they laugh) You were going to go to work and you would be back to your family in 16 or 18 or 20 hours.

RP: Every time you showed up you're always excited and I remember sometimes your back was bothering you or whatever. You know, all of us would be incredibly fatigued but we always had great energy and you always had great energy as a director, of picking up the crew, and they'd do anything for you.

KM: Well, the expression 'kick it in the ass' was born of necessity because we had to. We worked a lot of hours on this show.

RP: And everybody kicked ass.

KM: Oh, yeah.

RP: You just find it, it was like, you know, fourth quarter, second wind or something. Definitely an endurance marathon runner.

[Skinner: I don't believe it, Dana. It just doesn't make any sense to me.]

RP: Now, see, I was still trying to figure out what the heck had happened in Season 7.

KM: Right.

RP: Because I didn't, I watched a few of them, I think.

KM: Well, you saw the last one before you did this, right? Where Mulder walked into the beam of the UFO.

RP: Yeah, I think you actually kind of encouraged me to watch it. And I, you know, I'd seen a lot of X-Files over the years.

KM: Mmm-hmm. Well, especially these mythology shows. I mean, if you caught one and you weren't a regular fan of The X-Files, you were going to be in a little bit of trouble, because this was a very complex storyline, you know. For the real fans, I mean, this is what really hooked them, they loved this.

RP: Yeah, and the stand-alones were...

KM: They were a little icing on the cake.

RP: Yeah, something they can enjoy as well. It was fun to see their characters deal with something, a new set of problems or whatever.

KM: Well, I think there's another reason this show worked so well because every week we were doing a completely different story. We weren't stuck, you know, I mean, NYPD Blue, God bless 'em, and they do a great job, but it's a cop show. Every week there's another bad guy and another whatever it is. But we were doing aliens and monsters and, you know, we could do anything.

RP: I think we shot this my first night, too, the second part of the night.

KM: I think you're right.

RP: And this was the first time I got to work with Mitch. I believe this was the first scene.

[Doggett: The effort in vain. No mark left. Unless he rolled the dice, took one big last chance to make it.]

RP: It's a cool scene.

KM: Mmm-hmm.

RP: Yeah, I think this was the first time I worked with Mitch. You know, the other thing was cool was that you did... you got good chemistry going with different people. You had your vibe you had with Gill, you had your vibe you had with Mitch, I had my vibe with James, and likewise for them as well, they had, you know, different way that they interacted with the different actors.

KM: Mmm-hmm.

[Doggett: I get Mulder, I get him. I understand obsession, believe me.]

RP: Because I'm obsessive. (they laugh) Compulsive. But I really liked working with Mitch. I know Mitch and I had a lot of fun over Season 8. Some of the stuff that we went out on, just the two of us, and then of course Season 9 when Annabeth came in, and we had our own deal.

[Flashback to the forest scene in 'Requiem' 7x22. Skinner sees the bright light overhead and Mulder disappearing.]

RP: This is a flashback to Season 7, right?

KM: That's right, that was the last show of Season 7 I directed. We shot it in Big Bear, California.

RP: Do you remember watching this on the big screen?

KM: Yeah.

RP: Chris was cool, we had that big screening for us at the Academy. That was exciting. Everybody saw, boy did it work, too.

KM: Yeah. That was the first time I'd ever seen any of my work on a big screen.

RP: You had to be pretty proud of that.

KM: I was very proud.

RP: Cos it was clicking.

KM: Yeah. And for anybody that buys this DVD set, if you're producing a motion picture, I'm available.

RP: Are they selling this?

KM: Yeah. Yeah. This is going to make us rich.

(They laugh.)

RP: Oh, yeah, that's right, that's right. I thought we were just doing this to hang out and have some fun.

KM: No, no. RP: This is just me and you. Yeah, this is for sale, huh?

[Skinner: These are records of microburst activity. What we read is UFO activity since Mulder's abduction.]

RP: This is in her kitchen?

KM: This is in her kitchen, yeah, yeah.

[Skinner: And if Mulder is on that ship, this is where he is now. Scully: Here? In the Arizona desert?]

RP: They're sticking things in Mulder's eyes, guys. (KM laughs) He's not very happy right now. He's in a Stanley Kubrick movie up there in space.

KM: And the Gunmen.

RP: These guys were great. They were a lot of fun. Were they doing their show at the time?

KM: No. I think they started their show in Season 9.

RP: The other thing was the great actors that would come through. Do you remember Joe Morton came in this first season, he was in the third episode? Do you remember him?

KM: Yeah. Sure.

RP: We had some great guys come through there. We had…

KM: Really good.

RP: In Season 9, we had Burt Reynolds.

KM: Mmm-hmm. Chris directed that show with Burt.

RP: Who?

KM: Chris Carter?

RP: Yeah, yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. Chris who? (KM laughs)

KM: You've heard of him?

RP: Yeah, I think so.

RP: This is neat, too, because it's like who did that slipping of the file under the door. Remember me asking you that?

KM: Mmm-hmm.

RP: You never gave me an answer.

KM: Kersh. It was Kersh.

RP: But you didn't tell me.

KM: I probably didn't.

RP: At the time, you didn't want me to know.

KM: I didn't much like you at the time. (they both laugh)

RP: What did I do to piss you off the first night?

KM: I don't know. (laughs)

RP: I don't remember either.

KM: You know, actually, I had to ask who that was.

RP: I remember kind of like talking to you.

KM: Chris and Frank told me it was Kersh, cos I had no idea who it was either, and I probably didn't tell you cos at the time I had no clue and I didn't want to appear to be an idiot.

(pause - then Kim laughs)

RP: Now, I always thought it was, like, you just didn't want me to know because you thought it would be better for me to still be in wonderment, you know, a device for me as an actor to have...

KM: Well, I'm glad I pulled it off, but I had a feeling at the time I didn't know who it was either, I had to ask.

[FBI conference room.]

RP: I remember when you shot that.

KM: Mmm-hmm.

RP: Oh, man, I remember this speech.

[Doggett briefs the agents about Gibson Praise.]

RP: Man, I remember this speech, I remember I had a tough time getting through it, didn't I? Didn't I have a real tough time with it?

KM: Yeah, between the way I shot it, because it was hand-held on the dolly here, trying to get the important words between these heads and stuff. We did this a lot. A lot of takes here.

RP: I think I was a little, I wasn't so sure of the words, I hate to admit that. Maybe, was it? Was I? I can't remember, did I have the lines? I always had the lines, didn't I?

KM: You always had the lines but I think what we were doing here, again, we were working a new Doggett, a new character, you know, trying to find where you were.

RP: Yeah. Maybe it was saying some of these words, I had to say 'alien physiology'.

KM: Right. (laughs)

RP: My vocabulary grew as a result of this show. I had to keep a thesaurus in my trailer.

KM: You know what? I did, too. I had a dictionary because I'd read a script at home, I'd go, 'oh, god, Chris did it to me again'.

RP: What word was that?

KM: All the time, he did it to me.

RP: And me, too. So we get an education, a free education.

KM: A free education, yeah. Courtesy of Chris Carter.

[Mulder in the spaceship.]

RP: Here he is, he's up there. Over there on stage 20.

KM: He was not a happy camper in this chair. And I hated to do it to him.

RP: Yeah, right.

KM: Yeah. (laughs)

RP: You enjoyed torturing actors, come on.

KM: Oh, yeah. (RP laughs) We did our share of it, too.

RP: Well, you did one episode with me, man, that I was covered in orange marmalade. What was that? I got regurgitated.

KM: You died. And the guy ate you, and then he threw you back up and you were reborn.

RP: Oh, David doesn't look too happy.

KM: No. He's not happy.

RP: There's some stuff. And that thing's going to cut him. Oh, Jesus.

(KM laughs)

RP: Yow. Great effects.

KM: Yeah.

RP: Let's give it up for Cheri Medcalf in the make-up department.

KM: Oh, was she great? They were phenomenal.

RP: She won three, um...

KM: Three Emmys.

RP: Back to back.

KM: Yeah.

RP: See, the other thing cool about bringing the show down from Vancouver was you got out here into LA, you got to use all these deserts and stuff. You know, we got to go to Borrego Springs, get out there in the heat. And the desert stuff - oh, all of a sudden it's all coming back to me now. Do you remember how much helicopter stuff we did?

KM: Oh, yeah.

RP: We're going to see that coming up here.

KM: Right. We did a ton of helicopter stuff, like a hundred and twenty eight degrees during the day.

RP: A hundred and twenty eight degrees, we're sweating like crazy. I remember doing a scene, well, I don't want to give it away until we get there, but I'll make sure I remember that. I remember there were a few basic things you had to learn besides the Gilly board, I had to learn the way to shoot, the way to use the flashlight.

KM: Oh, yeah.

RP: Flashlight and weapon.

KM: Yes.

RP: How to, you know, bounce your light over your own board when you were in a dark situation. Now, here we are, helicopter.

KM: Yup.

RP: I had a lot of fun with this, flying around with those guys. I think it was Steve and can't remember that pilot's name but he was great.

KM: Well, what was nice, too, is we didn't shoot a 'poor man's process'. I put in you and an operator and a sound man and go.

RP: In the two years I was there, we very rarely did anything with 'poor man's process'. For those of you out there watching, that's where you just fake this stuff. Kim would, you know, put you up in the helicopter and actually shoot with you up there, while it's flying and you're doing your dialogue, it's much easier for you as an actor, cos you don't have to imagine everything. It looks so great. Right?

KM: Oh, yeah.

RP: Was that a good description of that?

KM: That was a very good description.

RP: Look at that. You can just feel the heat coming off. Oh, my god.

KM: Yeah, it was hot.

RP: I thought I was going to melt. Yeah. Yeah, I remember showing up there. It was a great location, though, staying out there.

KM: Yeah.

RP: We flew in in helicopters, no, wait a minute, did we fly in in a plane?

KM: A little private plane as I recall.

RP: We flew in a plane.

KM: Steve flew it in.

RP: Oh, you know what? I'm overlooking something personally that was really huge at this time, was my little boy was being born.

KM: That's right, oh, that's right. You were on standby.

RP: My wife was nine months pregnant and I had to go to this location, and we, oh, god, yeah, you can see how hot it is. This was cool, look at how you shot this. Remember this?

KM: Yup.

RP: Oh, look at that. And Doggett's going to land and get out of that.

KM: There is Gibson Praise.

RP: Immediately go find Gibson Praise or try to.

KM: Right.

RP: This leads us to, remember who this leads us to?

KM: No, who, who, who?

RP: You remember we got to follow the trail, we go up to the cliff and then...

KM: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

RP: Here you go, coming down. So, yeah, I was on standby, my wife was going to give birth to my little boy...

KM: And how old is he now?

RP: He's four. So this is four years ago.

RP: That was cool, that was all one take. Fly down, get out. Look at that car coming up at the back there.

KM: Yeah. Those were some tough shots to coordinate.

RP: Yeah, but you… tough shots for somebody that don't know what they're doing.

(KM laughs)

RP: Not for you. All right, here we go, we're hot on his trail. Where's the boy?

RP: A little bit different kind of tact, the way that Doggett goes after things.

[Scully to Doggett: What are you doing here? Doggett to Scully: What are you doing here?]

RP: That was cool.

KM: I love this.

RP: This is cool stuff.

[Doggett: Kid's on the move. Spread out!]

RP: You know why I really miss this show, I was the man!

KM: Yeah, you were.

RP: That's what I miss about this show.

KM: That's right.

RP: Doggett was in charge, man.

KM: Ex-marine.

RP: Gibson Praise, there he is.

KM: Yeah, in a world of hurt.

RP: Great kid.

KM: Yeah. Jeff. Jeff, Jeff's his name. He was great.

RP: Here we go, this is the big reveal. I remember reading this in the script and going, god, what a great way to bring these people together.

KM: Mmm-hmm.

[Helicopter flying over rugged rocks and cliff faces.]

RP: God, look at that.

KM: I love this.

RP: Look at that shot.

KM: Just a little one-hour TV show.

RP: Yeah.

[Gibson Praise with 'Mulder'.]

RP: Yeah, you imagine being in the middle of America and then, boom, you know, you turn on your TV and you see this stuff.

KM: Right.

[Doggett aims his gun at 'Mulder'.]

RP: There we go, there's the big moment.

KM: Yeah.

RP: Now, I remember calling you - this is it, that's the end of the episode, we're done.

KM: That's the end of the episode.

RP: I remember calling you... 'I will be compelled to shoot you'...

KM: That's right, I remember that line, yeah.

RP: And I was, like, we gotta change that, it just doesn't feel right. But then we shot it the way it was written and it was great.

KM: It worked out well.

RP: It did work, but I was really hesitant.

[End credits]

RP: Hey, that was a fantastic hour. Did we cover enough stuff?

KM: Did we yap enough?

RP: Were we on track?